captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> brown: trade, security and immigration topped the agenda, as president obama kicked off a three-day swing through mexico and costa rica. good evening, i'm jeffrey brown. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. on the "newshour" tonight, we examine the state of u.s.-mexico relations as mr. obama meets with mexican president enrique pena nieto. >> brown: then, we look at the fight over access to the morning after pill. a federal judge had ruled it should be available over-the- counter to women and girls of all ages. but the obama administration is now appealing that decision. >> woodruff: ray suarez reports on iraq's bloody april with

bombs and other attacks killing more than 700 people, raising fears of a sectarian civil war. >> brown: we talk to google's eric schmidt and jared cohen about the intersection of technology and democracy and the promise and pitfalls of the new digital age. >> privacy becomes more important in this new interconnected world because we need privacy, we all-- everyone wants it and i think you're going to have to fight for it. >> woodruff: and we close with a surprising archeological find in jamestown that tells a bleak story of the early colonists' struggle with starvation. >> from my experience working with prehistoric skeletons, this is absolutely consistent with what we see with cannibalism and those type of cases. >> brown: that's all ahead. on tonight's "newshour." >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:

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later, at a joint press conference, the president stressed the importance of the countries' relationship. >> we can't lose sight of the larger relationship between our peoples, including the promise of mexico's economic progress. i believe we've got a historic opportunity to foster even more cooperation, more trade, more jobs on both sides of the border, and that's the focus of my visit. >> woodruff: u.s. immigration reform will be a central piece of their agenda. president obama wants congress to approve a plan that would provide visas for seasonal workers, as well as a pathway to citizenship for the 11 million people now living in the u.s. illegally. more than half are from mexico, according to the pew research center. at a november visit in washington then president-elect pena nieto voiced support for those proposals. but a key issue for republicans

is stepped-up security along the 2,000 mile shared border with mexico and a stop to the flow of drugs, guns and crime. in the six-year drug war waged by felipe calderon, pena nieto's predecessor, mexico saw more than 60,000 drug-related homicides. pena nieto campaigned on a promise to end that violence, and in april his government claimed that killings had dropped 17% in the new president's first four months in office. pena nieto has also moved to take more control of his country's fight against the drug cartels. on monday his government confirmed that all security decisions would now run through the interior ministry, ending years of widespread, direct access by u.s. agencies, like the c.i.a., to their mexican equivalents.

mr. obama was asked about the decision during a press conference the next day. >> i'm not going to yet judge how this will alter the relationship between the united states and mexico until i've heard directly from them to see what exactly are they trying to accomplish. but overall, what i can say is >> woodruff: both presidents are eager to stress the importance of economic ties on this trip. mexico is america's second largest export market, and together the countries do more than a billion dollars in trade each day. last year the mexican economy grew by almost 4%, and pena nieto has planned ambitious reforms for his six-year term. tomorrow president obama will address mexican entrepreneurs before heading on to costa rica. joining me now to talk about the president's visit and the u.s./ mexico relationship is shannon o'neill, a senior fellow at the council on foreign relations and author of "two nations indivisible: mexico, the united

states and the road ahead." and diana negroponte, a senior fellow at the brookings institute. welcome to you both. diana negroponte, to you first. so pena nieto has only been in office a few months. why was this meeting scheduled so early in his time? it's important for mexico to consolidate a good relationship with the u.s. president, so coming this early-- and, remember, they met before pena nieto took the oath of office, so they've met in november-- consolidates a personal relationship, we hope gl shannon o'neill, how differently does-- just picking up on what diana negroponte just said, how differently does this administration see pena nieto from the way it saw his predecessors? >> well, pena nieto has come in with a big economic agenda, and he has very ambitious reforms on the plate, and some of them he's already passed.

he's passed a labor reform, education reform, lecommunications reform, and he's talking about ener and tax reform. and this is different from his predecessor, who had a hard time, particularly getting these issues through. that's something the obama administration wants to work with. we've already seen as you mentioned changes on the security side, an evolution in the way the u.s. and mexico will work together in security situations, more centralized flows of information, which will c day-to-day operations. >> woodruff: picking up on the economy, what can come out of this meet, diana negroponte, that would make things better? >> i would hope that they could reach some private-public partnerships to build access roads on the border. now, the border matters to trade. the border sees trucks and vegetables passing through each day, as well as human beings. but the logjam, the bottleneck is very bad. so if we can build with private money and public licenses some

good access road we're going to facilitate trade. >> woodruff: you mean, it's tough because of the immigration issues? >> it's tough because each of those trucks will be examined by he c.b.p., the customs and border patrol. so that creates bottlenecks, even though there are 53 point of entry. the volume of trade has quadruple. we haven't opened enough border crossings. we need private investment now. >> woodruff: and picking up on that and picking up on the immigration point, shannon o'neill, we've seen reports in the last few days, that president obama seeing that there's more opposition to immigration reform, there may not be as many undocumented immigrant in this country who-- for whom there wille a pathway to citizenship. how much is that on the agenda of the these two presidents? >> well, they will be talking about this because it's an incredibly important issue for mexico. mexico has some 11 million

citizens living in the united states, roifl six million of those here without papers, undocumented. and they care. they hope to improve the rights and abilities of their citizens here but i don't see the mexican government wait wading into the politics here. they've seen before the failures of big, comprensive immigration reform and investigate mexican government, or any foreign government step, in what is often seen as a domestic policy issue. we won't see any big public announcements on it. >> woodruff: do you see them, diana negroponte, standing back and watching with interest? >> they watch very closely. they follow our imgriegz debate in detail, but they do not want to interfere because they have, as a principle, a concept of sovereign, noninterference. so we should not interfere in their energy debate. >> woodruff: well let me ask you about the question of security as we mentioned in the setup piece just a few minute ago. this new president, pena nieto, changing the way the two countries will be dealing with

each other when it comes to the drug war, trying to centralize where all the information goes. how much of a different does that portend to be? >> we've had a very intense, close collaboration with the mexican government over the last six years. indeed, never has there been supa close collaboration between the two neighboring governments. so there's room to disengage somewhat. a concern for us is how the new security system develops. will we be can thed? what is the name of the dialogue between the two governments as mexico shifts the security strategy? >> woodruff: shannon o'neill, how do you see that? what do you see changing on the part of the mexicans, and how do you see this administration responding to it? >> well, one of the criticisms of the deepening over the last-- t las predents, the last

six years, has been often the sharing of information was fragmented, it was decentralized. so agencies were talking to agents, and even agents were talking to particular agents. the big strategic security plan, nationally in mexico or binationally, sometimes faltered. information wasn't shared. you couldn't see really what was happening. so in part this centralization of information flows will be good to have a clearing house where it's a bit clearer what's coming and what's going. but the challenge will be some of the information we've seen share rely f the first time in the last self years, is quite sensitive. it's about active cases and tracking down kingpins. and here you may see reticence, or caution on the u.s. side for sharing very sensitive information. they might do it with somebody they have been working with hand in hand and who they trust. but will they send it to a bureaucracy in mexico city? that's a concern. >> woodruff: is there a

concern on the u.s. part that the war effort could be weakened considerably because of this new system? >> prident pena nieto told us before that he would focus more on protecting mexican citizens than going after drug kinged pins. so we know that there's going to be a shift towards the interior of the country, keeping mexicans safe from extortion, kidnapping, car robbery. that we understand. but how you move towards that, the process itself is that is in negotiation or discussion now. >> woodruff: when were you gog to say, shannon? >> wasoing to say security in mexico in the end is really up to mexico. and there are things that mexico would like to do and that the united states can help them with. and those are things like helping with the transformation of the justice system, changing the way the court system works. the other things they can do is help clean up the police forces, make them more professional as

well as begin to expand the socioeconomic programs that help youth at risk or communities at risk. in the end, this is really mexico's problem. we can help them and we will but in the end it's their responbility. so this government is takeok that responsibility and presumably doing what they think needs to be done given how difficult the levels of violence still remain. >> woodruff: and, of course, mexico continuing to look to the u.s. and say, "you are the ones who are the main market for these illegal drugs." shannon o'neill and diana negroponte, we thank you both. >> thank you. >> brown: still to come on the "newshour": the fight over access to the morning-after pill; iraq's deadliest month in years; google's schmidt and cohen on "the new digital age" and grim details of the early days in jamestown. but first, the other news of the day. here's kwame holman. >> holman: president obama nearly rounded out his second- term cabinet today making two nominations to his economic team. the president chose one of his longtime fundraisers billionaire philanthropist penny pritzker to

lead the commerce department. and he tapped current economic adviser michael froman to be the next u.s. trade representative. froman is a former executive at citigroup. mr.obama made the announcements in the white house rose garden. >> i've had a chance to get to know penny and mike not just as leaders and professionals but also as friends. one of the reasons i'm proud to nominate them is they don't forget what matters. they know this is not about just growing balance sheets. it's about growing opportunity for people. it's about growing a sense of security for the middle class. and most of all they operate with integrity and they understand that public service is a privilege. >> holman: both nominees are predicted to have easy senate confirmations. one final cabinet nomination remains to lead the small business administration. there were reports out of syria today that 50 to 100 people, iludi women and children, were killed by government troops and gunmen. the british based syrian observatory for human rights

said president assad's forces took over a village near the mediterranean coast. many reportedly were executed by gunfire or knives. people who fled said other bodies were found burned. a north korean court sentenced an american citizen to 15 years hard labor for what it said were crimes against the state. the u.s. state department swiftly called for amnesty for 44-year old kenneth bae. we have a report narrateby john sparks of "independent television news." >> reporter: here's what we do know about kenneth bae. he's an american citizen, a devout christian and he's been sentenced to 15 years hard labor in a north korean work camp. still further details are harder to come by. mr. bae was convicted of hostile acts in the country's top court, but the regime hasn't provided information on the proceedings or details of the crimes. he was arrested last november in rasong-- a special economic zone

on the border with china mr. bae, was leading a tour group at the time, but it's thought his interest in assisting north korean orphans may have got him trouble. there is another explanation for his sentence. mr. bae is not the first american to be arrested for hostile acts. and in recent years, dignitaries like former presidents carter and clinton have made the trip to win their release. bill clinton helped free two u.s. journalists in 2009. >> when we walked through the doors we saw standing before us president bill clinton. ( applause ) >> reporter: but these visits are orchestrated say critics, by a regime desperate for aid and assistance. >> holman: a state department spokesman said today the u.s. is still trying to learn the facts of bae's case. no one from the swedish embassy in pyongyang, which handles

consular matters in north korea for the u.s. was at the legal proceeding today. the number of deaths from the collapse of a garment factory in bangladesh rose to 433 today. relatives of the missing searched for the remains of their loved ones as bodies were laid out for identification. police reported 149 people still are missing. it's the worst disaster in bangladesh's garment industry worth an estimated $20 billion a year. a wildfire threatened homes and a university campus in southern california today. it erupted this morning near camarillo 50 miles west of los angeles. gusty santa ana winds made the fire hard to control as it raced along the u.s. 101 freeway. 500 firefighters were battling the blaze but it remained uncontained. the u.n.'s annual climate report shows last year was the ninth hottest since records started in 1850. and that was in spite of the cooling effect of the weather pattern la nina. 2012 also marked the 27th straight year in which the

global average temperature surpassed 58 degrees fahrenheit the average of all the years from 1961 to 1990. stocks on wall street rose today as the european central bank cut its key interest rate and american jobless claims fell. the dow jones industrial average gained more than 130 points to close at 14,831. the nasdaq rose 41 points to close above 3,340. those are some of the day's major stories. now, back to jeff. >> brown: and we return to the battle over emergency contraception, the so-called "morning after" pill. it's been more than a decade since the pill was first approved by the f.d.a., but legal and political controversy has swirled ever since. in 2011 the f.d.a. decided the drug should be available to all girls and women, without prescription. in an unprecedented action, health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius quickly overruled the agency, keeping the age limit at 17 and older. last month, a federal judge ordered that restriction lifted in a strong rebuke to the

administration. then on tuesday, the f.d.a. set a new age limit 15 and older for the most popular version of the pill, known as "plan b one step." and last night, the department of justice said it will fight the federal judge's broader decision that the drug should be available to all girls and women. julie rovner of n.r. is here to help sort it all out. and i hope you will, because it's complicated. welcome back. >> thank you. >> brown: first the latest decision from the department of justice, appealing the ruling by the judge. why? what are they saying? >> well, this is more of a process appeal not so much a substance appeal. they're saying the judge overstepped his abilities, that this has more to do with the way the f.d.a. does its approval of drugs and that he really-- the judge really didn't have the authority to order all drugs, that this was really simply about this one drug the plan b one step, and that really-- he was not able to do what it is that he's trying to do, which is

order all emergency contraceptives to be made available over the counter to women of all ages. >> brown: not only did he do that, he did it in a very forceful way, a put-down against the administration. >> he did, indeed. this has been going on since 2005. this judge has had this case before through two mrpgzs now, and he said-- he had strongly rebuked the bush administration before, and the obama administration now for really sitting on this iue. >> brown: okay, now, in the meantime this week, also, the f.d.a. comes out with yet a new plan, a sort of compromise? what are they doing? >> you know, they had this had nothing to do with the judge's order but it's really hard to square that with the fact that they had been sitting on this drug application from the pharmaceutical company, tiva pharmaceutical, since 2011, and yet it comes four days before the deadline to act. and it did, as you mentioned, reduce the age of-- for people who do have to have a

prescription down to 14, basically, so people-- women 15 and up could get it without a prescription. something very important, though, that would change also under what the f.d.a. did before because there was this split rule where some people had to have a prescription and some didn't. you had to get the product from behind the pharmacy counter. you had to go and ask someone at the pharmacy, either the pharmacist or pharmacy clerk which meant you could only get it when the pharmacy was open, you had to on show i.d.s. and now they're saying you can get it on the shelves of the pharmacies. you will be able to get it at a target, wal-mart, or grocery store that has a pharmacy. that will make it more available. but still, you'll have to show iesm d. to a cashier. there will be literally a chip embedded, when you go to ring it up, it will tell the casher i.d. must be shown and you must be 15 or over. >> brown: as we heard in judy's segment. the president it in mexico and he's speak right now tay press conference and i'm just seeing

he was asked about this and he said, "i'm comfortable with the f.d.a. decision allowing girls 15 and up to buy the pill." that's an interesting question because it's not quite clear, the f.d.a. soever here, the department of justice is over here, the administration is over here. >> well, that's not really a surprise because, remember, when the f.d.a. wanted to take off all the age restrictions they were overruled by secretary sebelius who said she was uncomfortable with taking off the age restriction because of very young teenagers and by very young she said there wasn't enough information on perhaps the 13- and 14-year-olds. she was immediately backed up by the president who, remember, has two young teenagers of his own, and i think there was concern about those very young teens. so i'm not surprised that both the president and presumably secretary sebelius, who we haven't heard from, would be comfortable with 15 and up. now, the concern that women's health groups have about this is these 15- and 16-year-olds, who this has now been extended, to a lot of them won't have i.d. remember, they're mostly too young to drive.

they can present a passport or birth certificate. it's unlikely that's something they'll be walking around with, either. >> brown: as we said, this has been politically fought fair long time, so where does that leave the politics right now? who is happy and who is not sneap is anybody happy? >> i don't think anybody is happy. i think the people who really didn't want this to be made more available, some of the more conservative christian groups don't like it at all. the women's health groups want all of the restrictions removed. the administration sort of wants no part of this, and, remember, you've now got the justice department representing the f.d.a. we know the f.d.a.'s position was originally to remove all restrictions. it's really hard to know who wants what right now? >> brown: and what does happen next? >> well, they go before the judge. the judge has just given a few extra days to argue about whether or not they'll get a stay in this order. remember, the judge has ordered the fad to rimove all restriction, originally by next monday. so now they're going to argue about whether or not the judge will stay this order while it's

being appealed gl in the meantime, the use of the morning after pill, do we know? is it growing? has it stabilized? >> there has been some more use, but, again, there have been these barriers, as i mentioned, not just for younger women but for older women who have had trouble getting it because it's been kept behind the pharmacy counter and there have been difficulties with it. >> brown: all right julie rovner of npr, thanks so much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: and we turn to iraq where the country just had its deadliest month in nearly five years. ray suarez reports on the recent surge in violence and what's behind it. >> suarez: twisted wreckage and shattered glass strewn across central iraq, the aftermath of all-too-familiar bombings. four coordinated attacks monday in four shiite cities south of baghdad killed more than 35 people. multiple attacks yesterday killed 22 more.

>> ( translated ): do allah and prophet mohammed accept this? no one is safe. you do not know if you will come back to a house or not when you go to work! >> suarez: the attacks-- dozens in the last month-- are the most-serious spasm of violence since american troops left nearly 18 months ago. today, the united nations mission in iraq said april was the deadliest month since june, 2008: more than 700 people were killed, almost all in baghdad. coupled with the sunni-shiite bloodletting in neighboring syria, all this has rekindled fears of sectarian war in iraq. years of such violence tore the country apart after the american invasion, and killed tens of thousands. >> ( translated ): the explosions have escalated nowadays in the south and the middle of the country, especially since hawija events, when the iraqi troops stormed a protest site.

>> suarez: that attack in hawija by the predominantly-shiite security forces last week resulted in 20 dead sunni protesters. they had set up camp about 100 miles north of baghdad to oppose what they saw as the increasingly sectarian bent of shiite prime minister nouri al- maliki and his government. a string of bombings followed the hawija attack. sunni militants skirmished with security forces and the tell- tale car bombings of al qaida in iraq ramped up. but another group is also coming to the fore. the men of the army of the naqshbandia order, known by its arabic acronym, j.r.t.n., is a sufi-islamist militant group. the group was formed after saddam hussein's execution in late 2006. one of its strongholds is hawija. j.r.t.n. is allegedly headed by the highest-ranking saddam aide to elude capture: izzat ibrahim al-douri.

he was the king of clubs in the u.s. military's famous deck of cards of wanted iraqis. last week, prime minister maliki sought to tamp down the sectarian fervor, now rife in syria, and again threatening iraq. >> ( translated ): i can honestly say that if the sectarian sedition bursts there will not be a winner or a loser, all of us will be losers whether those who are in the south or in the north, in the east or west of the country. let those who foment sectarianism, whether they are from inside or outside the country, be ready to burn themselves of the fire sectarian strife. >> suarez: on monday iraq's media commission took what it said was a step to end that strife: it suspended licenses for ten satellite channels. >> ( translated ): we had direct meetings with the channels' administrations and we asked them to change their language. taking a stand against those who call for violence, sectarian strife and sectarian killing. they were calling for direct killing recently, so this is inconsistent with the norms and

standards adopted by free press in most democracies. >> suarez: most were sunni- affiliated operations. the commission is powerless, however, to stop broadcasts altogether. suarez: for more on all of this we get two views. ryan crocker was u.s. ambassador to iraq from 2007 to 2009 and is now a distinguished professor at the miller center at the university of virginia. and feisal istrabadi is the director of the center for the study of the middle east at the school of global and international studies at indiana university. he also served as iraq's deputy ambassador to the united nations from 2004 to 2007. ambassador, let's start with you, how do you explain the recent upsurge in violence in iraq? >> well, of course, the-- it is an upsurge. that's an important word. that is to say, there has been an ongoing degree of violence for some time sort of percolating along. i think a number of things have

occurred. i think that the maliki government-- nuri maliki himself has been asserting greater and greater control over the instrumentalities of the state. and i think-- and has been unable or unwilling to enter or execute the comp promises that general traeus hadorked out at the time of the american troop surge, and these chickens have sort of come home to roost at this point, and the dissatisfaction has just boiled over, i think. >> suarez: ambassador crocker, is that how it looks to you, an increasingly controlling prime minister is what is bringing on all this new violence? >> i think feisal is right, ray. it's a very complex situation, obviously. there is an iraqi domestic sectarian element with iraq sunnis unhappy over actions

taken against prominent sunni politicians, most recently charges against the highly regarded minister of finance, as well as the decision to postpone provincial elections in two predominantly sunni provinces. but there's another element as well that is captured in your clip. al qaeda in iraq is very much on the offensive, and they have combined with syrian al qaeda, in a truly horrific alliance. so these attacks from al qaeda, of course, play into an increase in sectarian tension that erupted in violence in hawija, as you pointed out, on april 23. i think it is a time when the prime minister who we just heard

call for steps to stop sectarian tensions and other iraqi politicians to take a deep breath, consider all that they've achieved, and not risk losing it now. >> suarez:am, do you see some of the syrian conflict spilling over into iraq? >> i have no doubt that ryan is right about that, but i have to say, that we have been-- that the sectarian violence, again, never truly subsided in iraq. there's always been an undercurrent of it, and i don't believe myself that the syrian crisis is fanning the flames in iraq as such. rather, with these sorts of alliances of convenience that ryan just mentioned, what you have is perhaps if you're a sunni tribal sheikh, you might look the other way when you see an al qaeda operative or an al qaeda celebrating if you

believe that you have been sort of permanently disenfranchised from the current polity. while i think it's contributing to it, i don't think it's a causative factor. i might also say part of the paralysis of the maliki government nmy view, is as they see what seemed, at least, the sort of a shia government falling in sirria, he was, i think, maliki, was concerned that that would be a precedent in iraq and that that has made him more intransigent in terms of making a political settlement of the issues. >> suarez: ambassador crocker you have calle this recent situation reminiscent of the days in 2006 that led to virtual civil war in iraq. is iraq sliding towards civil war today? >> i don't think iraq is at that point, but i do think the caution has to be sounded. the violence in hawija, when

predominantly shia security forces attacked a sunni protest encampment, and killed 20 people, is a very dangerous sign. and i think it should be the signal for iraqis of all sects and ethnicities to take a very deep breath, to recognize that they could slide back into chronic sectarian violence, that they and we worked so hard to put an end to. the tensions are not new, as feisal knows. but what is important is that they be resolved and worked through in a context of negotiation, of peaceful endeavor. and i think the prime minister's call that you just publicized for an end tow sectarianism is an important step in that direction. i think what spokespersons for

isola sistani after prayers will be important. gl ambassador istrabadi, the u.s. has basically left the country, unable to negotiate a remaining force with the government in baghdad. does the united states still have any leverage there, any influence? >> well, the united states still has, i think, tremendous leverage and tremendous influence. iraq is not the only country eye don't think there's a country in the world that the united states doesn't have influence over to some degree, including a place like north korea, let alone iraq. it has tremendous influence there. the iraqis want to buy american arms. the iraqis want to have good commercial relations with the united states. they want to have american companies invest in iraq. at some point, iraq will want world trade organization

membership. there were tremendous levers at the disposal of the united states. they may not quite be what they were when ambassador crocker was in baghdad and there were 150,000 trooppedz, but there are still 11ers that can and should be used by the administration to try to extricate iraq from what appears a descent into another round of chaos. >> suarez: ambassador crock eyou you not only nude influence. you need the government thatas the credibility, juice, the power to deescalate the current violence and bring stability to the country. does the al-maliki government have that? >> we've seen a pattern that was very present during my time there that given the still embryonic development of a new open political system in iraq, iraqis sometimes find it difficult to make compromises directly with each other. they can do it through a mediator, and we played that

role many, many times during my time in baghdad. i think, as feisal suggests, we need to do it again. we do have influence, precisely for the reasons he stated. we need to use it. and i think with the new team in the administration, particularly secretary kerry, as secretary of state, secretary hagel as secretary of defense, two committed internationalists, we have the people who could have a real impact. the influence is there. we need to use it. >> suarez: well, you gentlemen will be keeping an eye on the situation as we will here. ambassadors crock, and feisal istrabadi, thank you gentlemen both. >> woodruff: now, what a high- tech future may mean for your standard of living, personal privacy and how governments deal with their citizenry. a big subject, to be sure.

but those visions are the focus of a book called "the new digital age" by eric schmidt, the executive chairman of google and his co-author, jared cohen, who recently worked at the state department. he's now at google as well. i sat down with them in washington recently. eric schmidt, jared cohen, welcome to the "newshour." >> thank you for having us. >> thank you. >> woodruff: so you describe in the back, connectist, technology as a force for good, something that's going to improve the quality of human life. how can you be so sure? >> you know, we're going from a time when people had almost no information to the whole world being fully interconnected with all the world's information available to another 5 billion people who are joining us. that means they'll solve their medical problems, their health problems, obviously, economic problems. it will make the world safer. it will help our exports and globalization going on around us, but there are issues. but overwhelmingly, it's a good

thing. >> if you think 57% of the world's population lives under some kind of an autocracy. those 57% of the world's population in the future will have more choices, more options. they'll be able to be witnesses with smir smartphones in the face of atrocity. they'll be more empowered than any other time in human history. as eric mentioned tha that is nt necessarily a silver bullet answer to the world's problems but it is an important change that will take place. >> woodruff: at the same time, of course, there is the dark side and you spent a lot of time writing about it. we have been forcefully reminded of it with what happened to boston. two young men who thanks to the web, to the spirnt, were able to not voanl their ideology converted but also to get information on how to make bombs. what about that side? >> my question, of course, is how many flots plots were foiled before that offing others whose activities were seen by the police before they did something

terrible? and, indeed, the problem of the lone young man has been radicalized is not a fully solved one. with this technology we can detect this kind of behavior. we can give these people choices and i believe there will be fewer such attacks as a result. we will foil more of them in the future. thank god the boston police did such a good job. >> woodruff: you mean by finding them ahead of time? >> finding them ahead of time biker seeing what they're doing. it's very, very difficult to do the kinds of things these people were trying to do-- and ultimately successful-- without leaving a digital track. >> woodruff: but you still have jared cohen, these terrorist, jihadist web sites which are so easily available. they're now proliferating we're told, w by the thousands out there. >> i like to compare and contrast this with back alleys where the slums of riyadh where there's no opportunity for a counter-narrative to emerge. where there's no visibility into

where radicalization is taking place. if people are trying to radicalize at-risk young people you would much prefer them doing it out in the open where it can be challenged, where it can be seen by everybody from law enforcement to just citizens that oppose it. and the diversity of opinion cntz be escaped, even in the most radicalized environments when the entire world is online. >> woodruff: meanwhile, eric schmidt, you have repressive governments who look at all this freeflowing information, people feeling empowered, and they see it as a threat. whether it's a country like china or north korea or any other number of countries where leaders want to keep control over what's going on there their country. >> you know, this shift-- the shift has a bias, and that bias is an empowerment bias. it empowers the citizen of a country. and a sort of rough balance emerges in a democracy where the more empowered citizens have a better seau what the government is doing.

the government changes its policies and so forth. but in authoritarian governments, one which is not held accountable by its citizens, the citizens just get more unhappy. their expectations get higher. they know more about the corruption, as they define it, ithat goes on in their government, and it becomes aing significant threat to these governments. they will try to block the internet. they will try to slow it down. indeed, 35 countries now are blocking google in one form or another and it's a constant problem for us, and i'm sure for other internet companies. >> woodruff: and particularly, in a country like china, where you have over 2 billion people, a government determined to keep control of the information. not only that, there's all the cyber spying going osnooping into what western governments and businesses are doing. where do you see that headed? >> well, it's fortunate understand there are three things china is really doing right now. they're stealing intellectual property. they're restricting the civil liberties of their population.

but inticially they're also testing the waters to see what they can get away with in terms of nefarious cyber attacks. there is a larger point here. china is certainly not the only country doing this, but the vast majority of the world's technological infrastructure has not yet been built and for states coming online, many of which are autocratic, they can build it based on open principles or closed and autocratic principles. there are only so many countries whose companies can build that infrastructure. we have to make sure the rest of the world comes online with technology conducive to the free flow of information. otherwise it is going to be difficult, and the autocrats will have an extra edge. >> in the situation where the internet is balkanized is one which does not serve the interests of the united states, does not serve the citizens of the world. it may serve the governments, but it ultimately means less information, less freedom, less marks, less trade, lease

innovation. >> woodruff: let's broaden this out and talk about individuals as they're affected by this brave new world in a hyperconnected internet technology. eric schmidt, is there even going to be such a thing as privacy? >> of course there is. privacy becomes more important in this new interconnected world. we need privacy. everyone wants it, and i think you have to fight for it. it will be important to say i want my privacy. i don't want the government snooping on me for this reason or that. i'm not as worried about the mature western countries which have a history of privacy legislation. i'm very worried-- we talk a lot about this in the book-- about countries that don't have a history of privacy or individual rights. in a country that is sort of a police station, the notion of personal privacy, sort of a foreign concept. when they get all connected the the governments will put in snooping software, they'll track everybody under the guise of police without any civil liberties protections. >> woodruff: in terms of here in the united states, you

already see a generational divide, don't you, on this question of privacy? >> it's interesting that you mention generational. you have one author who is a parent, and the other who is maybe an aspiring parent, so one. things we've done in the 30-plus countries we've traveled to in this book is talk to a lot of parent about this issue of online privacy and security and whether you're in the united states, asia, or africa, parents are bishoping that their children are coming online earlier and faster than ever before. and our logic is when it comes to protecting privacy and security, you have to start younger and younger. parents need to literally talk to their kids about the importance of online privacy and security years before they even talk to them about the birds and the bees. >> woodruff: what about-- and this is kind of connect ted to this, eric, is the loss of human contact. the more we do everything in front of a screen or in front of a handheld device, a smartphone, the less person-to-person connection there is. how much does that query you?

>> so, this was an issue when the telephone came out. if you go back to the history of communications, everyone has had this concern. and yet humanity has flourished during this period. it looks to us like the connectist, these devices and so forth amplify human communication. they allow you to get more things done. but we don't see people spending less time with their loved ones as a result. they may share it with the distractions that are going on, but there's an "off" button for that. >> woodruff: what is your message to folks out there, some very comfortable with technology, others literally frightened of it, feel they are way behind when it comes to understanding where we are? >> the good news is that in my professional career, computers have gone from being essentially impossible to use to being very, very useful at many, many tasks. you think about the ease of use with which you can watch a voorks answer a question, sort of navigate. the new mobile phones and tablets are so much better than anything that preceded them, and that's going to continue.

eventually, these devise will become very good at anticipating-- this is, again, with your permission it's things you care about. you'll carry them around. they'll make interesting suggestions. they'll become your best digital friend and make your life better. >> woodruff: eric schmidt jared cohen, thank you very >> woodruff: you can watch more of our conversation online. while you're there, leave your questions for eric schmidt and jared cohen. i'll be talking to them again in a google hangout. details will be on our website. >> brown: finally tonight, a grizzly addition to early american history. founded in 1607, jamestown was america's first permanent english settlement. the virginia company of london established the colony 60 miles north of the mouth of the chesapeake bay, naming the site "james fort" after england's king james the first. but life there was anything but easy.

historians believe the settlers arrived during the worst drought in 800 years. and disease, starvation, and conflicts with nearby native americans plagued the colonists. accounts from the time tell of residents forced to eat dogs, cats, rodents, and even shoe leather to fend off starvation. and, it appears, it was even worse than that: researchers have now revealed evidence of cannibalism. in the remains of a 14-year-old girl found in a trash pit at the colony site last summer. forensic anthropologist douglas owsley says cut marks on the cheek bones and skull of the girl they've named jane support the theory she was butchered after her death for coumption. >> from my experience working with prehistoric skeletons where i have seen post-mordem meaning "after death" processing of remains, this is absolutely consistent with what we see with cannibalism and those types of cases. >> brown: how jane died remains unknown, but researchers say there was no evidence of murder.

in all some 80% of the colonists and members of a relief fleet sent from england died before the situation stabilized in 1610. and joining us now is william kelso, director of archeology at the jamestown rediscovery project. he directed the team that unearthed the young woman's bones and is author of the book, "jamestown: the buried truth." well, thanks for joining us. there have been written accounts of cannibalism in the past, right, so is this something you were specifically looking for? >> well, there are written accounts. there are actually six, from six different people, but they're all very enigmatic, and they're hard to follow, and i personally didn't really believe that they were that true because i thought they were making political statements back to the spobs org virginia company to send more

supplies. but the fact that we have those, and now we have the forensic evidence, and also the archaeological context where we found these remains in a layer of soil that we can date to what was called the starving time of 1609, 1610. >> brown: as to the evidence, fi in the picture a little more that lets you know it is definitely cannibalism? what are the signs that make this so clear cut? >> the marks, the cuts that are on the cranium, the skull, and these are the things that dr. owsley has pointed out, all add up to someone wouldn't make these marks unless they were removing soft tissue and the brain from the skull. and there are scores of sawing-like cut marks where you know the only reason they could

be there is to remove the flesh. >> brown: we said we don't know much about-- well, we don't know how the young woman died. what do we know about her? what can be said? >> well, we don't know her name. we've named her jane, as in jane doe, to give her some kind of personality, but we don't know her name because the ships that came in 1609 that brought several women, there's not a list of their names. but we can know something from the fact that most of them that came were either the daughters of gentlemen or would be maid servants sphwhrow so what is t the-- what is the significance for you of something like this as you're looking at this long-term project of trying to figure out what happened there? is this a big surprise? is this a major step to know sort of, i guess, how serious it

was at that time? >> yes, that's certainly true. and it had quite an impact on me. i think that archaeologists can deal with material culture artifacts and get some feeling for the people, but it's when you come face to face with something like this, in my case, i have a much more of empathy for the situation they were in, and the fact that jamestown came so close to failing, and i think the course of american history from that point on, from this this first permanent english settlement would have been quite different had it failed. >> brown: are we still learning more about what that winter really like and what a close call it really was? >> i think so right off because there are these accounts that you can take as a grain of salt sometimes, but now, i'm

convinced. this is-- this happened. and to be reduced to that level of starvation is hard for a modern person to even imagine. but i think now we can because here is conclusive proof, i feel, that that took place. >> brown: and what's the next step for you? what are you-- what's the next thing that you're most concerned to look for? >> well, we are still excavating in a cellar room that became a kitchen or a bakery site down below ground. now, that level, that layer that was-- that soil that jane's remains were found in, of course that's been excavated. but they're the floor levels will of the kitchen, and we just started yesterday and more today uncompg those layers. now, i don't expect to find more of that situation because the

layers above is where we found it. but we can learn a lot about the starving time from what was thrown around in that cellar, and it's quite a thick layer. and the site is open to the public. they can see us do these excavations right up front and close. so we're sharing our moment of discovery with the public as we do our research. >> brown: another william kelso on the archaeological discoveries at jamestown. thanks so much. >> thank you, jeff. >> wooduff: again, the major developments of the day: president obama visited mexico to promote jobs, trade and immigration reform. april was the bloodiest month in iraq in almost five years, with more than 700 people killed in bomb attacks and other violence. and a fast-moving wildfire >> the bhody of the boston marathon bombing suspect cd tam

has been claimed. a funeral >> brown: online, a campaign to get americans used to hearing the words "madam president." kwame holman explains. >> holman: the progressive women's group emily's list unveiled an effort to help elect the first female president of the united states in 2016. we take a look at polling and some potenti connders. and among presidential candidates of the last three decades, who still carries campaign debt? we look at a new report from the center for public integrity. some states are considering a all that and more is on our website newshour.pbs.org. jeff? >> brown: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm jeffrey brown. >> wooduff: and i'm judy woodruff. we'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and michael gerson, among others. thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> more than two years ago, the people of b.p. made a commitment to the gulf. and everyday since, wee work hard to keep it. today, the beaches and gulf are

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